Get indie folk on stage, and strong opinions start flying. In some ways, it’s almost reflexive, and even more so in the corporate coziness of Cannes Lions.
Yet, when you peel it all back, you see very clearly that there are many reasons that indie founders and leaders value what they’ve built. Success doesn’t happen overnight; plenty of lessons are learned, and this experience creates great places for talent to thrive and brands to succeed.
The candor that indies bring to the table is essential, but it’s far from bluster or simply provocation. It’s a real-world, real-business perspective, and there is no time to waste on the usual corporate pleasantries.
Julian Boulding, thenetworkone owner, led a dynamic panel at LBB & Friends Beach of indie leaders covering a wide range of topics—all leading to how indies think and thrive.
Panelists included:
- Barrington Reeves, Creative Director, Too Gallus, Scotland
- Emma Harris, The Chief, Glow London and Founder, “Slow the f*** down,” UK
- Mark Pasetsky, Founder, Mark Allen & Co, USA
- Nick Paul, Founder and President, Barkley OKRP, USA
- Pooja Manek, Creative and Founding Member, Talented, India
Below are some key takeaways from Boulding’s conversation with the panelists.
How a diverse team made Burger King choose BarkelyOKRP as its AOR
Boulding recounted a conversation with Paul about how Burger King was blown away by the diversity of the agency’s team during a tour.
We’re three founders, (all) white males over 50. We’ve intentionally hired a very diverse group of people for many years. Our opening line to the Burger King client was that everybody dressed very differently. I said (somewhat tongue in cheek), ‘If you can find an agency with a more diverse dress code than we are, then you should hire them.’ And, of course, I had a sports jacket on, but the rest of the crew [blew the client away], and the rest is history.
Our takeaway: Smart agency leaders know how to hire right and do so by thinking about how diverse teams can create exceptional business results. BarkelyOKRP has been doing this for a long time, and it’s helped land great clients and build strong, effective work.
A better way to live in advertising
Leading into a conversation about talent, Boulding pointed first to Harris, who recounted a major health scare that changed her perspective.
I was in New York, and I stood up to go to the loo on the fifth day we’d been there and had a cardiac arrest entirely out of the blue. Three people she asked for help, and three people who were at the table next to us were doctors who saved my life. No pre-existing conditions or health conditions, just stress. And when I woke up in ICU, all I could think of was, what the fuck have I been doing? You know, I’ve got four kids. What the fuck have I been doing on this quest for more and this quest for life, and when I get there, I’ll be happy, and when I earn that, and when I’m thin enough, or whatever the fuck I was worrying about.
I posted these thoughts on LinkedIn with the hashtag #slowthefuckdown. I don’t remember doing it as off my [head] on morphine. Within two days, I got a phone call from a friend saying, You just broke LinkedIn. It got 9 million plus views, 90,000 reactions, 10,000 comments, and people pouring their hearts out, telling stories about one guy in advertising on his way to a pitch who had a heart attack, waiting until after the pitch to go to A&E.
Our industry is insane, and so that’s why I launched Slow the Fuck Down. And it’s not about doing less. I’m still me, but it’s about choosing what we do, not relenting in fear, FOMO, and guilt.
Our takeaway: There’s nothing more to take away from this story. Honestly, slow the fuck down.
Clients want it faster than ever (and why boundaries matter)
A massive issue in the business is client demands. Boulding noted how they all want it faster (and cheaper). While some agencies will take whatever work comes their way without thinking about it, there is a much-needed move toward building boundaries. One of the more vociferous panel members, Manek, has some strong opinions about the issue.
If you start an indie agency and still have to consider whether this problem is still there, then the problem is you, not the client.
What I mean by this is that we were very clear on how we want to deal with clients and how clients need to deal with us. A practical example would be sending a talent handbook to every new client we sign up with, and even before they sign us up, it’s publicly available. You all can also see it.
It has a section that mentions how clients need to treat talent talent. The whole section is for clients to read, and it explains the best way to get the best out of talent. They’re not getting our service for free, so it’s only essential and pivotal for them to understand how to get the best out of us. And, of course, the section talks about mental health, about no calls up to 7 pm—a section talks about no working over the weekend and how it is an exception, not an expectation.
That’s the reframing that we have managed to do, even with the clients, and it’s also about the kind of vocabulary we use around how we work, and that’s made a huge difference. A client once told us [they] waited for half an hour before sending a text over a weekend.
And that, in itself, is a win, right? The client shaking for half an hour before sending a text over the weekend is a win outright for any ad agency. So that’s practical advice there, in terms of starting off with the clients, telling them your boundaries, and, of course, you can always tell them no, even when they’re not listening.
Pasetsky co-signed Manek’s observations, pointing out how his agency similarly approaches clients. PR, in particular, can be perceived as transactional—get the press hits and keep going. However, Pasetsky forces clients to think differently about the process.
Sometimes, you do get lucky in the beginning [with press], but to build a long-term, sustainable campaign, it’s really about those in-between moments where you’re doing things like this, speaking at events, getting to know the press, and submitting yourself to awards. All those pieces come together. Then, over time, you can build a successful campaign. I’ll add to what you said: the work-life balance issues, including setting boundaries, are helpful.
From Reeves’ point of view, clients may see some of the agency’s work and want something similar out in the world immediately.
A client will see an amazing piece of work from us, and they say that’s stunning; we want it now. It’s so well thought out. Can you do it for this project? By the way, this project lands next Friday. Well, no, because that project was done over four and a half months. And I think you’re just trying to manage a client’s expectation of what you see out in the wild versus your internal expectations have to be balanced because you’re looking at things that have maybe been ideated over a year and then expecting that to be put out on your time frame, which can just be unrealistic.
To Paul, it comes down to a simple idea: managing clients.
You have to set boundaries. We have weekends, deadlines, and clients that do Super Bowl ads, so the stress leading up to that stuff is crazy, but what we do is demand respect. And if there is something that you need to stand up for your team, it’s about respect, and it is the people that need to take a break. You have to step in. It is the respect to say, ‘listen, you missed the deadline. I’m sorry.’ It becomes the standard the second you break it, allowing them to miss deadlines continuously.
Our takeaway: Amen. All of these specific examples are an extremely helpful roadmap. And the thing is, they are highly specific, real and practical. It may be a little scary at first, but there is proof that it works and, ultimately, helps create real balance.
On building a narrative as an indie
Yeah, we threw the panel a self-serving softball. But, come on, we paid for the trip, so we gotta get at least one in.
We asked how they approach their narratives and those of their clients, and they do so consistently.
To Pasetsky, unsurprisingly, it’s about visibility.
You have to be authentic to each agency’s brand. From there, it’s essential to be out there and build relationships with the press, doing things like this, sitting on a stage, and looking out the water. Getting people published is the number one thing you have to do. All those fun things come together to help tell an agency story and help them differentiate themselves. One of our clients once said that we provided the most marketable moments for them, which is what agencies need to grow.
For his part, Reeves is very clear on the agency’s point of view.
We aim to be the most significantly culturally impactful design agency in our country, and we achieve this head-over-shoulders year after year because we take a fearless approach that every other agency has been too scared to take.
We have a narrative, something to follow and buy into, which has undoubtedly done wonders for us. We are doing great work, which helps.
Harris co-signs the swagger approach.
Once you’re clear on that narrative, it should help you select your talent, select your clients, and devise all of the DNA of the business. Without that brand narrative, how do you differentiate in the market? Everyone’s saying the same shit, so you have to be brave.
And finally, the compensation model
It’s one of those elephants in the room: the pricing model. Is it based on FTEs? Is it by the hour?
Harris noted her agency’s approach as evolving.
We try not to (charge by the hour of FTE). It’s hard because you have to start the cost basis for nothing, but we do a rough per hour per day, then turn it into an overall fee, and we do an impact guarantee. So we’ll keep working till we get it right. But we’re probably smaller than most agencies, so we can do that.
Paul hopes that AI expedites the transition to a new pricing model.
I think it’s short-sighted to think about employee hourly rates—being able to get into output and value is the way to go. We’ve been successful with about 50%, but Emma’s right. Many people still try to drag you back into the mud.
Pastesky was short and sweet.
We never have charged by the hour, and we never will.
And Reeves concurs.
Agree. You can’t put a price on the world’s best talent.
But leave it to Manek, in all the best ways possible, to get it to its essence.
First, we must train ourselves to understand that our self-esteem makes us price ourselves higher. We need to share our collective imposter syndrome as agencies and prize ourselves for the output we give, not the people who made it happen. And every time that procurement comes back with, ‘Hey, tell us how many people are in your team,’ you can just reply to them, saying, ‘That’s none of your fucking business.’
Our takeaway: Manek for President. Of everything.
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Doug Zanger is the founder and editor-in-chief of Indie Agency News. He is also the founder of the Creative Bohemian consultancy, lives in the Pacific Northwest and is insufferable about it.
